Life Ahead - part 4 - Understanding freedom and discipline
Nghe discipline đã nản chả muốn đọc rồi.
The problem of discipline is really quite complex, because most of us think that
through some form of discipline we shall eventually have freedom.
...
Surely, intelligence comes into being only when you are free to question, free
to think out and discover, so that your mind becomes very active, very alert and
clear. Then you are a fully integrated individual—not a frightened entity who,
not knowing what to do, inwardly feels one thing and outwardly conforms to
something different.
Intelligence demands that you break away from tradition and live on your
own; but you are enclosed by your parents’ ideas of what you should do and what you should not do, and by the traditions of society. So there is a conflict going on inwardly, is there not? You are all young, but I don’t think you are too young to be aware of this. You want to do something, but your parents and teachers say, ‘Don’t’. So there is an inward struggle going on; and as long as you do not resolve that struggle you are going to be caught in conflict, in pain, in sorrow, everlastingly wanting to do something and being prevented from doing it.
If you go into it very carefully you will see that discipline and freedom are
contradictory, and that in seeking real freedom there is set going quite a different
process which brings its own clarification so that you just do not do certain
things.
While you are young it is very important that you be free to find out, and be
helped to find out, what you really want to do in life. If you don’t find out while
you are young, you will never find out, you will never be free and happy
individuals. The seed must be sown now, so that you begin now to take the
initiative.
...
On the road you have often passed villagers carrying heavy loads, have you
not? What is your feeling about them? Those poor women with torn and dirty
clothes, with insufficient food, working day after day for a pittance—do you
have any feeling for them? Or are you so frightened, so concerned about
yourself, about your examinations, about your looks, about your saris, that you
never pay any attention to them? Do you feel you are much better than they, that
you belong to a higher class and therefore need have no regard for them? When
you see them go by, what do you feel? Don’t you want to help them? No? That
indicates how you are thinking. Are you so dulled by centuries of tradition, by
what your fathers and mothers say, so conscious of belonging to a certain class,
that you do not even look at the villagers? Are you actually so blinded that you
do not know what is happening around you?
Ở VN có lẽ do không có phân biệt đẳng cấp hoặc có nhưng không gắt như ở Ấn Độ, ngoài ra ở VN có gì đó mưa nhiều nên không bẩn bụi như bên Ấn ? Dù cho có nhiều con đường bùn lầy lội (thời xưa). Đoạn này hơi xa lạ với góc nhìn từ người VN, bỏ qua cái nation conditioned thì chắc OK. Tuy nhiên nếu viết sách hay bài diễn gỉải JK thiết nghĩ nên lấy ví dụ gần gũi hơn. Đương nhiên sẽ có bản dịch sát nguyên tác bên cạnh bản dịch sao cho dễ tiếp thu hơn.
All this implies sensitivity. But, you see, sensitivity is destroyed when one is
disciplined, when one is fearful or concerned with oneself. To be concerned
about one’s looks, about one’s saris, to think about oneself all the time—which
most of us do in some form or other—is to be insensitive, for then the mind and
heart are enclosed and one loses all appreciation of beauty.
To be really free implies great sensitivity. There is no freedom if you are
enclosed by self-interest or by various walls of discipline. As long as your life is
a process of imitation there can be no sensitivity, no freedom. It is very
important, while you are here, to sow the seed of freedom, which is to awaken
intelligence; for with that intelligence you can tackle all the problems of life.
Questioner: Is it practicable for a man to free himself from all sense of fear and
at the same time to stay with society?
KRISHNAMURTI: What is society? A set of values, a set of rules, regulations and traditions, is it not? You see these conditions from outside and you say, ‘Can
I have a practical relationship with all that?’ Why not? After all, if you merely fit
into that framework of values, are you free? And what do you mean by
‘practicable’? Do you mean earning a livelihood? There are many things you can
do to earn a livelihood; and if you are free, can you not choose what you want to
do? Is that not practicable? Or would you consider it practicable to forget your
freedom and just fit into the framework, becoming a lawyer, a banker, a
merchant, or a road sweeper? Surely, if you are free and have cultivated your
intelligence, you will find out what is the best thing for you to do. You will brush
aside all traditions and do something which you really love to do, regardless of
whether your parents and society approve or disapprove. Because you are free,
there is intelligence, and you will do something which is completely your own,
you will act as an integrated human being.
Đoạn này hay vì nó rất sát sườn việc sống và đối nhân xử thế hằng ngày. Đương nhiên về mặt kỹ thuật để sống thật với bản thân mình đòi hỏi nhiều thứ, nhất là việc đây là tình huống kiểu bạn là người đi tiên phong. Cái gì mới mẻ thì nguy hiểm cần cẩn thận thử nghiệm, theo dõi để hoàn thiện dần. Bảo thủ là minh chứng của sự cẩn trọng. Đoạn này thì Chris Laro viết hay.
Good morning society.
Questioner: What is God?
Méo quan tâm. Tuy nhiên sẽ dịch khi rảnh. Đa số mọi người theo một tôn giáo, thờ một chúa nào đó. Atheism vô thần chắc chỉ phổ biến ở VN và china ?
Questioner: Can we be aware of our unconscious desires?
"unconscious desires" ha ha :) what you desire most ?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-thing-that-you-desire-most-in-life
I wanna I wanna I wanna taste sugar. (Brown Sugar Rolling Stones)
KRISHNAMURTI: First of all, are you aware of your conscious desires? Do you
know what desire is? Are you aware that usually you do not listen to anyone who
is saying something contrary to what you believe? Your desire prevents you from
listening. If you desire God, and somebody points out that the God you desire is
the outcome of your frustrations and fears, will you listen to him? Of course not.
You want one thing, and the truth is something quite different. You limit yourself
within your own desires. You are only half-aware of your conscious desires, are
you not? And to be aware of the desires that are deeply hidden is much more
difficult. To find out what is hidden, to discover what its own motives are, the
mind which is seeking must be fairly clear and free. So, first be fully aware of
your conscious desires; then, as you become increasingly aware of what is on the
surface, you can go deeper and deeper.
Đoạn sau này rất thực tế này.
Questioner: Why are some people born in poor circumstances, while others are
rich and well-to-do?
KRISHNAMURTI: What do you think? Instead of asking me and waiting for my
answer, why do you not find out what you feel about it? Do you think it is some
mysterious process which you call karma? In a former life you lived nobly and
therefore you are now being rewarded with wealth and position! Is that it? Or,
having acted very badly in a former life, you are paying for it in this life!
You see, this is really a very complex problem. Poverty is the fault of
society—a society in which the greedy and the cunning exploit and rise to the
top. We want the same thing, we also want to climb the ladder and get to the top.
And when all of us want to get to the top, what happens? We tread on somebody;
and the man who is trodden on, who is destroyed, asks, ‘Why is life so unfair?
You have everything and I have no capacity, I have nothing.’ As long as we go
on climbing the ladder of success, there will always be the sick and the unfed. It
is the desire for success that has to be understood, and not why there are the rich
and the poor, or why some have talent and others have none. What has to be
changed is our own desire to climb, our desire to be great, to be a success. We all aspire to succeed, do we not? There lies the fault, and not in karma or any other explanation. The actual fact is that we all want to be at the top—perhaps not right at the top, but at least as high up the ladder as we can climb. As long as there is this drive to be great, to be somebody in the world, we are going to have the rich and the poor, the exploiter and those who are exploited.
Questioner: Is God a man or a woman, or something completely mysterious?
Lại god.
KRISHNAMURTI: I have just answered that question, and I am afraid you did not listen. This country is dominated by men. Suppose I said that God is a lady, what would you do? You would reject it because you are full of the idea that God is a man. So you have to find out for yourself; but to find out, you must be free of all prejudice.
Nghe discipline đã nản chả muốn đọc rồi.
The problem of discipline is really quite complex, because most of us think that
through some form of discipline we shall eventually have freedom.
...
Surely, intelligence comes into being only when you are free to question, free
to think out and discover, so that your mind becomes very active, very alert and
clear. Then you are a fully integrated individual—not a frightened entity who,
not knowing what to do, inwardly feels one thing and outwardly conforms to
something different.
Intelligence demands that you break away from tradition and live on your
own; but you are enclosed by your parents’ ideas of what you should do and what you should not do, and by the traditions of society. So there is a conflict going on inwardly, is there not? You are all young, but I don’t think you are too young to be aware of this. You want to do something, but your parents and teachers say, ‘Don’t’. So there is an inward struggle going on; and as long as you do not resolve that struggle you are going to be caught in conflict, in pain, in sorrow, everlastingly wanting to do something and being prevented from doing it.
If you go into it very carefully you will see that discipline and freedom are
contradictory, and that in seeking real freedom there is set going quite a different
process which brings its own clarification so that you just do not do certain
things.
While you are young it is very important that you be free to find out, and be
helped to find out, what you really want to do in life. If you don’t find out while
you are young, you will never find out, you will never be free and happy
individuals. The seed must be sown now, so that you begin now to take the
initiative.
...
On the road you have often passed villagers carrying heavy loads, have you
not? What is your feeling about them? Those poor women with torn and dirty
clothes, with insufficient food, working day after day for a pittance—do you
have any feeling for them? Or are you so frightened, so concerned about
yourself, about your examinations, about your looks, about your saris, that you
never pay any attention to them? Do you feel you are much better than they, that
you belong to a higher class and therefore need have no regard for them? When
you see them go by, what do you feel? Don’t you want to help them? No? That
indicates how you are thinking. Are you so dulled by centuries of tradition, by
what your fathers and mothers say, so conscious of belonging to a certain class,
that you do not even look at the villagers? Are you actually so blinded that you
do not know what is happening around you?
Ở VN có lẽ do không có phân biệt đẳng cấp hoặc có nhưng không gắt như ở Ấn Độ, ngoài ra ở VN có gì đó mưa nhiều nên không bẩn bụi như bên Ấn ? Dù cho có nhiều con đường bùn lầy lội (thời xưa). Đoạn này hơi xa lạ với góc nhìn từ người VN, bỏ qua cái nation conditioned thì chắc OK. Tuy nhiên nếu viết sách hay bài diễn gỉải JK thiết nghĩ nên lấy ví dụ gần gũi hơn. Đương nhiên sẽ có bản dịch sát nguyên tác bên cạnh bản dịch sao cho dễ tiếp thu hơn.
All this implies sensitivity. But, you see, sensitivity is destroyed when one is
disciplined, when one is fearful or concerned with oneself. To be concerned
about one’s looks, about one’s saris, to think about oneself all the time—which
most of us do in some form or other—is to be insensitive, for then the mind and
heart are enclosed and one loses all appreciation of beauty.
To be really free implies great sensitivity. There is no freedom if you are
enclosed by self-interest or by various walls of discipline. As long as your life is
a process of imitation there can be no sensitivity, no freedom. It is very
important, while you are here, to sow the seed of freedom, which is to awaken
intelligence; for with that intelligence you can tackle all the problems of life.
Questioner: Is it practicable for a man to free himself from all sense of fear and
at the same time to stay with society?
KRISHNAMURTI: What is society? A set of values, a set of rules, regulations and traditions, is it not? You see these conditions from outside and you say, ‘Can
I have a practical relationship with all that?’ Why not? After all, if you merely fit
into that framework of values, are you free? And what do you mean by
‘practicable’? Do you mean earning a livelihood? There are many things you can
do to earn a livelihood; and if you are free, can you not choose what you want to
do? Is that not practicable? Or would you consider it practicable to forget your
freedom and just fit into the framework, becoming a lawyer, a banker, a
merchant, or a road sweeper? Surely, if you are free and have cultivated your
intelligence, you will find out what is the best thing for you to do. You will brush
aside all traditions and do something which you really love to do, regardless of
whether your parents and society approve or disapprove. Because you are free,
there is intelligence, and you will do something which is completely your own,
you will act as an integrated human being.
Đoạn này hay vì nó rất sát sườn việc sống và đối nhân xử thế hằng ngày. Đương nhiên về mặt kỹ thuật để sống thật với bản thân mình đòi hỏi nhiều thứ, nhất là việc đây là tình huống kiểu bạn là người đi tiên phong. Cái gì mới mẻ thì nguy hiểm cần cẩn thận thử nghiệm, theo dõi để hoàn thiện dần. Bảo thủ là minh chứng của sự cẩn trọng. Đoạn này thì Chris Laro viết hay.
Good morning society.
Questioner: What is God?
Méo quan tâm. Tuy nhiên sẽ dịch khi rảnh. Đa số mọi người theo một tôn giáo, thờ một chúa nào đó. Atheism vô thần chắc chỉ phổ biến ở VN và china ?
Questioner: Can we be aware of our unconscious desires?
"unconscious desires" ha ha :) what you desire most ?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-thing-that-you-desire-most-in-life
I wanna I wanna I wanna taste sugar. (Brown Sugar Rolling Stones)
KRISHNAMURTI: First of all, are you aware of your conscious desires? Do you
know what desire is? Are you aware that usually you do not listen to anyone who
is saying something contrary to what you believe? Your desire prevents you from
listening. If you desire God, and somebody points out that the God you desire is
the outcome of your frustrations and fears, will you listen to him? Of course not.
You want one thing, and the truth is something quite different. You limit yourself
within your own desires. You are only half-aware of your conscious desires, are
you not? And to be aware of the desires that are deeply hidden is much more
difficult. To find out what is hidden, to discover what its own motives are, the
mind which is seeking must be fairly clear and free. So, first be fully aware of
your conscious desires; then, as you become increasingly aware of what is on the
surface, you can go deeper and deeper.
Đoạn sau này rất thực tế này.
Questioner: Why are some people born in poor circumstances, while others are
rich and well-to-do?
KRISHNAMURTI: What do you think? Instead of asking me and waiting for my
answer, why do you not find out what you feel about it? Do you think it is some
mysterious process which you call karma? In a former life you lived nobly and
therefore you are now being rewarded with wealth and position! Is that it? Or,
having acted very badly in a former life, you are paying for it in this life!
You see, this is really a very complex problem. Poverty is the fault of
society—a society in which the greedy and the cunning exploit and rise to the
top. We want the same thing, we also want to climb the ladder and get to the top.
And when all of us want to get to the top, what happens? We tread on somebody;
and the man who is trodden on, who is destroyed, asks, ‘Why is life so unfair?
You have everything and I have no capacity, I have nothing.’ As long as we go
on climbing the ladder of success, there will always be the sick and the unfed. It
is the desire for success that has to be understood, and not why there are the rich
and the poor, or why some have talent and others have none. What has to be
changed is our own desire to climb, our desire to be great, to be a success. We all aspire to succeed, do we not? There lies the fault, and not in karma or any other explanation. The actual fact is that we all want to be at the top—perhaps not right at the top, but at least as high up the ladder as we can climb. As long as there is this drive to be great, to be somebody in the world, we are going to have the rich and the poor, the exploiter and those who are exploited.
Questioner: Is God a man or a woman, or something completely mysterious?
Lại god.
KRISHNAMURTI: I have just answered that question, and I am afraid you did not listen. This country is dominated by men. Suppose I said that God is a lady, what would you do? You would reject it because you are full of the idea that God is a man. So you have to find out for yourself; but to find out, you must be free of all prejudice.
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